Insurance for Freelancers with Chan Pei Ling

Jayce: Hi everyone, I'm Jayce.
Fanny: I'm Fanny, welcome to Freelance Creative Exchange, where every episode we speak to a freelancer about freelancing and the gig economy.

Jayce: And today our guest is Pei Ling. Welcome Pei Ling.

Pei Ling: Hello.

Jayce: Pei Ling is a Media Risk Consultant at Starlight Media Consultants, where she advises companies and media freelancers on good business practices, as well as coverage needed for feature films, documentaries, TV series, as well as corporate formats. So, Pei Ling would you like to introduce yourself or to add on to what I have not said to our audiences?

Pei Ling: Okay. So, I started out being a… my first job was a line producer, for a local production house. I held that job for six years. So, I think through that experience I made so many good friends in this industry, and also many of them now are doing very well in their business, some are still freelancing, but I just thought that this was all a way of us giving back to society, and I am just so happy to take on this journey with them.

Jayce: Yeah, so one of the reasons is, in our podcast series, a lot of our guests are actually freelancers themselves. So, we spoke about the mindset, not being afraid of the new journey, because this is what you need to take on for the next 21st century skillsets. But I think a very important aspect of a freelancing career, that we need to look at, is really the insurance, the protection part of it. Which is something that a lot of the freelancers are aware, but not exactly sure, “What do you mean by this, and how do you go about doing it?” 

So hence today we invited Pei Ling here to actually really share with us more, to kind of raise awareness that it is important for freelancers to start thinking about how you protect yourself and also in that sense, protect your family, so that you make freelancing a much more enjoyable career. 

One of the things that we, of course, think Pei Ling is very suitable for this, is because of not only her insurance background, which actually is a very big part of protection, but also her media knowledge, hence a lot of the projects she's involved in has to do with the media industry. So maybe Pei Ling, do you want to share with us some of the projects or protection schemes that freelancers usually come to you for?

Pei Ling: Okay, so I think if you are embarking on the journey of being a freelancer, there are many things that you need to juggle. You need to spend enough time to grow your business, but more importantly, you also need to have the adequate insurance protection for yourself. 

As a freelancer, you may not have the assurances that a full-time employee would get. Let's say, for example, if you're a full-time employee in Singapore, all full-time employees in Singapore are covered under the Work Injury Compensation Act. What it means is that, let's say, as an employee, if you are injured while working, the company that you're working for is supposed to take responsibility for you in case you get injured. 

Now, what happens is that, should you be injured due to an accident, or you fall sick because of certain job hazards that you're exposed to, your hospitalisation bill will be paid, and there will be compensation, a daily wage, you'll still be earning your wages. 

As a freelancer you do not have that, so therefore you have to plan for yourself what kind of insurance protection you will need to cover that portion of work injury, your own work exposure, and there are companies as well, in Singapore, and all over the world, that they do have medical plans for their employees. 

So, what it means is that, let's say, if I need to take an MC, and maybe I need to be on MC for three weeks or something, so even your MCs and your medical bills can be claimed from the insurance that the company has purchased for everybody. 

Now, some people think, “Hey, so maybe I should just be a full-time employee. If I'm a full-time employee maybe I need only to buy my own insurance.” But, that's not true as well because all these insurance schemes are not portable, meaning that when you stop working for that company, you will lose that insurance. So, by then, it may be too late for you to start sourcing for your own insurance if you have some pre-existing conditions already. 

So, I think insurance is a form of self-responsibility that you know yourself, you take care of your own health and look for the kind of insurance that you need for your life stage and especially a hospitalisation plan, because that is something that you need to start as early as possible.

Fanny: So, I guess you have been in the industry for quite some time, have you seen a shift in the freelancers’ mindset towards insurance and getting coverage for themselves?

Pei Ling: Okay, I'll answer that question in two parts. The first part is, there are freelancers that move on and become business owners, yeah. So, I would say that then in time to come they move from a start-up to a business that is more stable. 

Now, usually when the business stabilises, people think, “Okay I need to start looking at insurance, I need to make sure that I'm protected, and my crew is being protected,” because now you're responsible for other people, and then maybe the broadcasters or whoever that [unclear 00:08:08] and say, “Hey, are you being insured?” So, all that creates an awareness and you do something about it. 

So, in recent years or so, there are more companies that are looking into insurance. We come across companies of all sizes actually, the bigger companies, the bigger production houses that maybe have an employee of 30. 

We also have young start-ups as well, that they say, “Hey, I'm going to start my business so can you tell me what I need to get, and what is affordable for me and I can explore my options?”

So now because I think there are more companies that are getting insurance, and I'm talking about, maybe equipment insurance, public liability when you go out for shoots, a corporate travel insurance that covers all kinds of contingency when you go overseas. So, the premiums are also getting lower for everybody because I think insurers are then seeing, “Okay, there is a demand, we can look into offering more affordable premiums, better terms and conditions for everybody.” So, it's like a win-win for everyone. 
Now, I think for somebody who is just a young freelancer starting out, those are the good questions that you can ask yourself as well, “How do I plan my business? How do I balance my budget? Maybe I need to set aside a little budget to see what kind of insurance coverage, and just get the important things covered first.”

Jayce: So recently we also know that Ministry of Manpower together with NTOC has actually got into this, what we call the Tripartite frameworks for freelancers, and there's actually this news announcement that this young start-up company is going to launch this insurance against income loss for freelancers. What do you think would be the take-up rate for insurance like this? Do you see a need for freelancers to actually really consider this as an alternative protection tool for themselves?

Pei Ling: So, what I understand is that there is one insurer that created an insurance product and there are other insurers who say that they might do something similar, but they have not launched the insurance product yet. So, it is good to wait and see what is being offered by them, hopefully they come up with something soon. 
Now, looking at that particular product that's on the market now, it is called Income Protection For Freelancers. So, what it does is, let’s say, if a freelancer falls sick and is on MC, he or she will be able to claim up to three weeks of income replacement on a daily basis, for up to three weeks. Now if it's hospitalisation you could claim up to twelve weeks of hospitalisation, that means you get a pay-out every day. The higher the pay-out amount that you have chosen, the higher your premium will be. 

So, I think that is to answer the worry of a lot of freelancers that, “What if I am sick? I don't get an income meanwhile.” So, I think it's a very straight forward scheme and the premium is not very high, but I would say that this is a good supplement if you can afford the premium. It’s a good supplement for whatever insurance that you would need in the first place, like your hospitalisation, personal accident, and your critical illness plans, because if you look at the pay-outs, I would say that, let’s say, if I fall seriously sick, I would need something to cover my medical bills, but this insurance doesn't cover medical bills. It also doesn't cover long-term care, because let's say, what if I suffer from a stroke? Twelve weeks of hospitalisation, I might not be hospitalised for twelve weeks, but I will need long-term care for a long time to come. So, you will still need to look at the traditional insurance products to see and balance out, once again looking at your budget, to have a more complete protection for yourself. 

So, I would think it's a good supplement, but it doesn't replace the necessary insurance coverage that you need.

Jayce: So, I'm sure a lot of freelancers would probably come to you and say, “I really don't know what I need.” So, do you actually also, based on the estimate income of the freelancers, and then the job, whether they are graphic designers, whether they are soundmen, and then you would recommend different kind of levels of insurance that they need?

Pei Ling: I think most freelancers, when they come for it, the first thing that comes to their mind, “I want to insure my equipment.”

Jayce: Yeah. Because it's their livelihood.

Fanny: Yeah, because they're worried.

Pei Ling: So, I would say that's important, but maybe what you can do because we all have a limited budget, because as a freelancer you need to spend money on your business, you also need to spend money on yourself. So, I think with your limited budget, with regards to equipment insurance, I think you look at your equipment and think, “Okay, what are the important pieces that I need to insure?” And you focus on those, and also know that with every insurance policy, when there’s a claim, there is a duration where you need to process a claim, and that is a lot of work and hassle as well, and when you insure the important pieces, that means those pieces that you would think, “It's okay, I don't mind losing them, I have other things that I could replace them with,” then it may not be worth your premium. 

So, I think with that in mind, once you have settled whatever you need to get for your business, you focus on yourself and I would say your hospitalisation plan is the most important one. Yeah, if I could come out with a ranking, your hospitalisation plan would be the most important, second to that I would say it depends on your job nature, if you're not exposed to… 

Jayce: Potential risks at work.

Pei Ling: Yeah, you don't need a high premium for that. So maybe a personal accident plan, you can get one for $100 a year. So that takes away that worry as well. 

When I just started out working, I took a savings plan, so because you're young and you're like, “Okay I don't know when I'm getting married,” or, “I don't know where I'm heading to.” So, I thought, “Okay, I should just start something.” So, what I did was, I was 23, I bought a very simple savings plan. So now, 20 years later, it's like, “Hey, not too bad.” There's an amount that's accumulating, so I know that when I reach a certain age I'll be able to start drawing out an amount, so I intend to use that for my children's education. 

So, you never know, you start a saving plan when you're younger, you have a longer time horizon and you can plan better.

Jayce: Yeah, true. So, Pei Ling, you have been in the media industries, started out as a freelance producer and then moved into this insurance line, but still very much involved in the media industries. Has the industry changed a lot from where you are, I wouldn’t say an outsider, but somebody who is on the fringe, looking in at how the industries have grown over the past, say, ten years? What are some of the major changes that you see happening right now?

Pei Ling: Yeah, I think I see some good things, as in many of the filmmakers and business, and young start-ups, and people that have started a business, they have matured, and a lot of them are also looking into giving back to society, and I think that's a very good sign, and also diversifying. I think last time everybody was doing the same thing, but now everybody is looking into their own skillsets and creating different pathways for themselves, also looking overseas. 

So, I think as Singaporeans, we are not naturally risk-takers, and we don't quite know what to say to people outside of our comfort zone, so I think that is something that we can do better.

Jayce: Yeah, because I think back probably ten years ago, we didn't really see so many media studies, courses in the schools, but today, all the polys, including the ITE's, the universities all have media courses. 

So, one of the, I would say, worries about when we interact with some of our media professionals, is there are too many such professionals out there, and also with newcomers coming in, it also adds a certain kind of risk to the industry, we see, whether it's in terms the fee that they charge to professionals and all this. Do, you actually see this happening from where you are? Do you get younger and younger freelancers coming to you, or are they relatively quite senior and stable in their freelance careers?

Pei Ling: I think I see a mix. I think those that are more senior in their freelance careers, they are very sure of what they want, but they are also looking at new ways to refresh their business and gain new skills. 

I see very young people as well, and what I like is that there are young people who are so eager to learn about, “If I'm starting something on social media, what kind of insurance do I need?” So, they may not be able to put aside an amount now for premiums, but as their business grows, they know, “Okay, this is what I need to do.” So that's actually a good sign as well, especially when you're younger.

Jayce: So, what is some of the advice that you'd give to growth in freelancers, as in like, from a financial stability perspective? What do you think they should actually do in terms of stabilising their income, their career, and what kind of product should they actually even start considering right now?

Pei Ling: Okay, I think in terms of your business, if you have a small office space, I think what you need to get is an office insurance, that sort of covers everything that is in-house, because most of your laptops, your editing decks, cameras and all of that, it will be stored in-house anyway, and these premiums are very low. So, it will start from a very low base, and of course, you do bring some equipment out, but you don't bring everything out. So, that equipment that you bring out, just insure the ones, as I said before, the important ones. So that will settle your business, and then for yourself I would say, hospitalisation, get a savings plan going.

Jayce: While you're young right? It's much more affordable.

Pei Ling: Yes, and then the other thing I would say is, okay, a shout out for those in their 30s and 40s, I think that if you're in that age you have more commitment in life, you're probably paying off your housing loan, you have children, your parents are ageing. So, I think what you need to look into is also your own plans, what you're going to do. Your freelance career has a timeline, so what I would say is, when I was 35, what I did was, I was looking at my own retirement, so what I did was, I said, “Okay, when I'm 55, I don't think I want to be worrying about bills and my own health. What if something bad happens to me? I wanted some kind of security when that time comes.” I’m self-employed, so I don't contribute regularly to…

So, what I did was, I started a retirement plan, so that's on top of the $200 savings plan, so a retirement plan. That one you need to work backwards. So, what happened is that I wanted it to start paying out to me monthly when I'm 55. So, I was 35 back then, so I have 20 years to work towards that goal. So, I said, “Okay, when I'm 55 I need this amount to money to keep me going.” So then at 35, for 20 years, what's the amount that I need to invest into that insurance policy, just to meet that goal when I'm 55? So, after working backwards, I thought, “Okay this is the amount that I need to put in.” So, it's a form of discipline for me. I don't spend every cent that I make, and it gives me a good perspective and a security to know that, “Okay when that time comes, I can project what it will be for myself in the future.” There's so many uncertainties but I think you need to have certain things that are plugged in and you know for sure are going to help you as you age along.

Jayce: Yeah, I think that's important. Because I think a lot of people actually, usually when they're younger they always think, “You know, I have a long way in front of me, so I will worry about all this later,” you know, until something happens, so I think it's important to give this a hard thought.

Fanny: In Singapore's context what do you think about CPF?

Pei Ling: Oh my God. Okay, that is a tough question.

Fanny: Because we know a lot of them, they don't contribute, but yet the interest rates provided by CPF is actually quite very stable and high rate. But, of course, the pay-off is you have to wait until you are susceptible to all the policy changes along the way. So, in general, all the freelancers you have met before, do you think that more freelancers in Singapore are inclined to contribute to CPF, or actually a lot of them are not sure?

Pei Ling: I think generally, not only freelancers, but I think because the CPF scheme, there are changes along the way, and it is quite difficult for us to understand what it is. So, I think for full-time employees, they just say, “Okay, anyway I have to pay, whatever happens it comes.” But I think as freelancers and self-employed people, I think we need to make an effort to understand how it works, and then you think whether it is something that you like, and then you could make your contribution then, because the schemes do evolve, so you need to know what it is first. 

So, if you have an insurance advisor, talk to the person. I would say be selective who you appoint as your insurance advisor, because there are tight advisors meaning that, tight advisors are people that only can sell the products of one insurance company, which means they have a quota to meet, and they may not be able to know what is the best product on the market. 

There are also advisors who are from independent advisories, so they can represent many different companies, but even then, they need to have you in mind when they plan for you and not pushing for products.

Jayce: But I think at the end of the day, the most important is, I think freelancers should take-up the responsibility of finding out more, because after all it is their livelihood, and if they really see freelancing as a viable career for themselves, then they should actually have the responsibility to actually look at a protection scheme as well, how they want to go about protecting themselves. Because ultimately at the end of the day, it's not just themselves, it's also their family, and I'm sure, I'll quickly mention, those who have been freelancing for a while and fairly successful and in their 30s and 40s, they probably have a lot of commitments, so I think it's also to consider those commitments as well. 

But we spoke so much on the freelancers’ side about the awareness of insurance products, how about on the companies’ side, as in people who employ freelancers, do you think they're not actually more open to getting insurance to protect the freelancers, when they work with freelancers?

Pei Ling: Okay, now because for companies, it's easy for them to protect employees and they do. They do, because employees come under the Work Injury Compensation Act, so there's work injury compensation insurance. Now, because every company in Singapore buys them, the premium is very low. 

So, for companies, usually, when they buy an insurance package to insure their office and all that, it's just included in the package, so it's very easy for them. 

So, when it comes to freelancers, it's a bit difficult, because for them to even declare to insurers, “So how many freelancers do I have to insure?” And then, “Is it that every time I engage somebody, I have to insure them?” So, for companies, they are in this though situation as well. 

Now, I have some freelancers, what they do, the more experienced freelancers, they have equipment insurance for their own gear, they have personal accident for themselves. So, whenever they take on a project, they will then tell the client, “Okay, I have insurance already, you don't have to worry. So, when I prepare my invoice to you, I'll just put in a small amount for insurance, are you fine with that?” And I think a lot of companies are like, “Thank you,” because it also saves them the hassle of, if something happens to you or your gear, you yourself will be taking care of the claims and all that, they don't have to do that for you, they might not know how to do it as well. So, I thought that's actually a good practice.

Jayce: I think that actually saves a lot of the hassle on both sides. I think recently the MOM Tripartite agreement also mentioned that they are looking at something like this. For example, they mentioned the government would actually take the first step to actually… only where freelancers are protected. So, I think this is actually a move in that direction as well.

So, this is the practice locally, but do you see some best practices outside that you think might be something that we can consider in time to come for Singapore? Like how did the freelancing industry in the US, or whether it's in Europe, or if there's any other countries that you think has something like this already in place that can be best practices in that sense?

Pei Ling: I think in the more mature markets, the unions are really strong. That comes with pros and cons, but one advantage that they have is that they could, if there is a sizeable number of people in a union, then the union themselves, they would know how much equipment everybody has and all that. So then, when you negotiate with the insurers, the premiums can be a lot lower, because then the insurers then know, “Okay I'm not just issuing so many different insurance policies, and I have to keep processing the claims from so many different clients, but I'm just working with one party.” So, then the premiums can be a lot more affordable for everybody. So, in time to come, maybe that is something that can happen in Singapore.

Jayce: Yeah, I think that is interesting, because I think, after all, freelancing is still quite, in that sense, considered quite new, especially in Asia. So, I think the whole model is still evolving and things like that.

Fanny: But with groups of freelancers coming together and with the new association and things like that, I think we have real formed communities already, so this maybe happening sooner.

Jayce: So, a few of the insurers already said that they are looking into this, so we definitely will hear more about this kind of insurance policy, protections and all this for the freelance group, which is positive. Because when we first started, about five years ago, when Creatives At Work was first formed about five or six years ago, these kind of issues and challenges were something that nobody was addressing, but now with the awareness that the change of the way that people work, with the growing of the gig economy, so more people are actually aware, especially with NTOC, MOM, in that direction, pushing it. So, I think now both, not only the individuals are concerned about their protection, but I think the company as well. So, it actually creates a lot of awareness for the company as well, what are the various avenues that they can have in terms of protecting freelancers, and also, at the end of day, everybody just wants to have peace of mind, so that we can actually create the product that we are actually proud of and that we want to do. I think that's the most important. 

Okay, before we actually wrap up, we have one last question that we have for you, and this is something that we ask every guest. So, the question is, if you could give one piece of advice to your younger self, when you're just starting out, what would you say? Take your time to think about it, no rush.

Pei Ling: Yeah. I think my younger self was very self-consumed. I think a lot of young people, very idealistic, “Oh I'm going to try this and do that.” I didn't know where my limits should be. I felt like, if I could have found mentors in my life, that would have been very helpful, but the first company I joined was a young start-up, so everybody was young, nobody was mentoring each other. We just tried everything, many mistakes along the way, we learned from our mistakes, and that's all good. But I felt like if I had mentors in my life, people I can look up to, they may not be in the same company, because if you're a freelancer you may not be with people to find that, but maybe have for yourself, people whom you look up to, if you have in mind people that, maybe I think, “This particular freelancer is very experienced.” Don't be shy to say, “Hey, can I have coffee with you? How do you do it?” And learn from people and then keep up with them and just be able to share your worries, I think that helps so much, and then learning from people who are good role models in having a good work-life balance, I think that's important too.

Jayce: Yeah, most importantly health is very important. Yeah, alright, great. Thank you so much Pei Ling for joining us for this session, so we're just going to do a round-up.

Fanny: Thank you for tuning in to another episode for Freelance Creative Exchange. Subscribe to our iTunes and Spotify and leave us a review.

Jayce: Also subscribe to our YouTube channel and leave a comment, because we want to hear from you, and let us know the questions of the freelancer you want to hear from.

Fanny: Follow us as Creatives At Work on Facebook and Instagram.

Jayce: Join us next time for a brand-new of Freelance Creative Exchange.

Fanny: Until then, bye.

Jayce: Bye, thank you Pei Ling.