Persistence Pays Off | The Freelance Creative Exchange (#7) Wesley Leon Aroozoo

“At the starting stage you may do things which you don't really want to do, but you have to do it because it's a job. So, I think being able to accept that is important, putting your dreams aside, just for a moment, and learn the skillset required.”

When you promise to love a person 'till death do us part', what does it really mean? On the 11th of March, 2011, Yasuo Takamatsu lost his wife to the tsunami during the Great East Japan earthquake. Since that fateful day, he has been diving in the sea every week in search for her. Compelled and inspired to share Yasuo’s story, “I want to go home” was a documentary about the strength of human resilience and the power of love, with an accompanying book.

In this episode, we speak to director and author Wesley Leon Aroozoo on the process on conceiving both works, his filmmaker journey and what it is like to be selected for Busan International Film Festival after years of trying. What are his insights about the media industry and its future from teaching the next generation of filmmakers? Wesley Leon Aroozoo is a filmmaker, writer and a LASALLE College of the Arts lecturer. His first full-length documentary, I Want To Go Home, made its world premiere at the Busan International Film Festival and was one of 10 entries shortlisted to compete BIFF ’s Wide Angle Documentary Competition.

Trailer: https://vimeo.com/231733790

Fanny: Hi, I'm Fanny.

Jayce: Hi, I'm Jayce.

Fanny: Welcome to the Freelance Creative Exchange where every episode we speak to a freelancer about freelancing and the gig economy.

Jayce: And today our special guest is Wesley from the Lasalle College of the Arts.

Fanny: Yeah, Wesley is a lecturer at the Lasalle College of the Arts. He's also a film maker and he has just released his full-length documentary, I Want To Go Home. It has made its world premiere at a prestigious film festival and was one of ten entries shortlisted to compete in the BIFF Wide Angle Documentary Competition. 

Jayce: So, Wesley, thank you for joining us on the show today.

Wesley: Thank you for having me.

Jayce: Maybe you'd like to actually share with our audience a bit about yourself and your background and introduce yourself to the audience?

Wesley: Sure, my name is Wesley. I'm a lecturer at Lasalle College of the Arts, I've been there for the past five to six years, and other than teaching, I also do films and I try to direct as much as I can here and there. But mainly I'm interested in writing, the different forms of writing, whether it's scriptwriting or writing more in the literature side whether it's like a novel or a short story or maybe if it's a play. So, writing is something that I'm quite passionate about.

Jayce: Right, and Wesley's recent project, I Want To Go Home, was actually a huge, I would say, success.

Wesley: Thank you.

Jayce: And congratulations on the book and also on the documentary. Would you like to share with us a bit about the book and the documentaries on, I Want To Go Home?

Wesley: Sure. I Want To Go Home, is the story of Mr. Takamatsu. So, how it came about was about four years ago, I read an online article about his story saying he lost his wife during the 2011 tsunami and since then he has been diving in the sea every week to search for her. So, when I read this online article I was really inspired by him and I wanted to find out why he is still diving, so I wanted to do a book about him. The main reason is to share his story with more people, hopefully they can be inspired, just as, how he has inspired me.
So, the book was always, like the primary project, but as I got to meet him and as the project went on its way, a documentary, kind of had to be made, in order to get the project rolling, so that's how the documentary came about as well. 

So, there's two things, but they're both kind of different. The book is more of my experience with meeting him, while the documentary is more of a profile piece on Mr Takamatsu.

Jayce: Right, so how long did you spend in Japan with Mr Takamatsu on this project?

Wesley: For this project, the good thing is that, even before going to Japan we talked over email for a year, so we would talk every week and I would ask him questions just to get to know him. Then eventually, when I had enough funding to go and meet him, I could only spend about one week to actually be with him in Onagawa, due to work, but one week was kind of enough, because prior to that I had talked to him for one year. So, when I met him it was like, I kind of already knew him. Yeah, so it helped a great deal.

Jayce: Right, so how about the language? Did you meet with any challenges or any difficulty in terms of the different language that you're conversing in?

Wesley: Mr Takamatsu only speaks Japanese and doesn't really understand English, and I speak English, I don't understand Japanese. So, when I was embarking on the project and when I was to email him, I realized, “Okay, we won't understand each other.” So, I had to find a translator to help us translate our messages, but at that point in time I don't have any funding to do the project, also, neither did I think it would be a project. At that point in time my main aim was just to talk to him

So, I happened to find a friend's friend, she's based in Melbourne, but she used to be from Japan and she decided to help out for free, to help translate our emails. So, it's a little bit tedious because before I could email Mr Takamatsu I would have to go through Micky, who is the lady who does the translation, and then she would send it back to me, then I would send it to Mr Takamatsu, then he'd send it back to me and it would go back and forth, back and forth, back and forth, all the way for one year. Until today we are still talking in this way.

Jayce: Oh wow, so until today you are still in contact with Mr Takamatsu?

Wesley: Yeah.

Jayce: Oh wow, does he know the success that your documentary has made in the different regions?

Wesley: In a way, because we're friends on Facebook. So, it always says on my posts about it, yeah.

Jayce: So, he's aware that he's actually a star right now?

Wesley: Not really a star, but yeah. He does know his story is shown in different countries.

Jayce: Right, right, yeah.

Fanny: I guess the thing about people in the creative industry, I mean the freelancers, or you know, like yourself, a lecturer, is how do they time find time to juggle the day job, or like as a freelancer, like your projects and something which you want to pursue of your passion? What was the motivation? Because it takes place over a year, how do you keep constantly motivating yourself to finish and complete a project?

Wesley: I think, for me, it can be difficult to juggle, depending on the nature of the project. So, I try to choose projects where I can work independently, for example writing a script and it's just me doing it in my own time. It's more difficult if you want to work on a production with 20 people and it has to be on these dates of a shoot. Yeah, so I need that flexibility.

So, for this project it also helps when you have the support of the people around you who understand, okay, you need time. But I think at the end, of the day all of us have 24 hours in a day and there's only so much we can stretch some parts, which means many things have to be sacrificed along the way as well. So maybe, okay, you can't play that video game that you wanted to play, or you can't meet up with your friends who are meeting up this week because you have to do something else. So, you need to have loved ones and friends who, kind of understand, like okay, you might need a little bit more time at this stage.

Jayce: But you also need to have the discipline, right?

Wesley: Yeah.

Jayce: To actually meet the timelines on this. So, do you set yourself timelines for this project, or actually is it kind of like a loose timing, depending on what parts you can put together?

Fanny: Well, what I'm interested to know is what is the driving force? You know, there's a lot of times we start something and then we don't complete, we understand, but what was the driving force for you to really complete the project, and not just in the documentary but also the book?

Jayce: Also, the book, yeah.

Wesley: I think, for me, doing all the small independent projects, I get frustrated. Even now I'm working on something and I get frustrated because I feel I'm not doing it fast enough, it's very slow, it's taking three years to do something which if I just did it by myself and had all the time, maybe you can take just six months. So, it's frustrating but it's something you just have to accept in life, yeah. 

But for this project, I think when I was doing the project, I just had… I think prior to this project it was like my first feature documentary and before doing this project I would go to organizations to pitch ideas and usually they get turned down and those are like future ideas. Okay, and then the project gets pushed behind and I never think about it again. So, that happened like two, three, four times.

So, I was speaking to a friend and this was a projected I wanted to do. So, I brought this project to the organization to pitch again and they turned it down again. So, I was like, “Oh no, I don't have any funding, which means maybe this project won't happen.” And I was speaking to a friend about it, his name is Bee Thiam, he's part of this organization called 13 Little Pictures, so he told me, “Even if you don't get the funding you should really just push ahead with this project and just find a way to do it.” 

So that's why I decided, okay, even though I had no funding at that stage, I would still just push ahead and maybe things will come into place as we go along, which actually it did at some point.

Jayce: So, what attracted you for this particular project, is it the situations? What exactly drew you to have the… 

Fanny: A connection.

Jayce: Yeah, a connection, and the commitment to say, “Okay, even if I don’t time, with my busy schedule, I still want to pursue,” or to continue?

Wesley: I think it was his story. When I found out he's diving in the sea every week to search for his wife and when I tell friends this story, I say, “I'm doing this, I'm interested in this guy’s story, he's diving in the sea every week to search for his wife, and she was lost during the tsunami four or five years prior,” and they're like, “What? What is he intending to find? He's never going to find his wife, she's not there, logically she's not there,” and for me I am interested to find out why is he really doing that. 

So, eventually I did find out, and I think the project became… I just really wanted to share his story with people, because I think the online article that came out, it was around for a day or two and then people did read it and go, “Oh, I'm affected by it,” but then it kind of went away as well and then people forgot about it. So, I wanted to do something that expanded on that one-page article that's a little bit deeper and for them, hopefully they might be inspired by it, yeah.

Jayce: So, I think it's a long process, so I think with all freelancers as well, they really have to juggle their so called paid job, commission job and also passion, because a lot of time… I mean, of course, the best scenario is your passion is also your work, but most of the time it may not be so. 

So, in that sense, for freelancers like this, who are also juggling with both their commission work as well as their passion project, would you also advise them to actually continue, or rather I would say, my question is, do you think it's important for creatives to also have small projects or passion projects like this to do on the side? On top of what… 

Fanny: They do for a living.

Jayce: Yeah, exactly. 

Wesley: I think it's extremely important. I think, for example myself, I'm teaching film-making and because I'm not working full-time as a filmmaker, I need to do small projects to be a little bit more relevant, to know what's going on around, so I won't be rusty. So, I think it's extremely important and those who might be in similar positions, I think in that aspect it's important, so that you won't lose touch and also it won't become one of those things where… 

I mean sometimes, for some, they may always talk about projects, “I intend to do this. I want to do this. I have this big idea. I want to do this and do this,” and then when you meet them four years later they're still talking about projects. So sometimes, you kind of need to push ahead and just do it sometimes. But it's not so easy, of course, not all times can you just do it, because you want to do a feature fiction film, you can't just, “Okay, I'm going to do it by myself.” It's not going to happen.

Jayce: So how many projects are you involved in prior to this. I Want To Go Home?

Fanny: I mean, we know that you have been submitting short films since you were 19 years old, so in total do you have a number? How many of such projects have you…?

Wesley: In regard to short films?

Jayce: Yeah, any projects that you have submitted or any project that you have worked on since you started at the age of 19 until now.

Wesley: Oh, quite a few I think, but mainly they fall into aspects of short films and writing. So, I did write short films quite aggressively from maybe 19 to the age of 28. I did, I think, maybe 13 to 14 short films during that period, and then after that I was doing more writing because it was a little bit more comfortable with my job and also, I think I was doing my postgraduate studies at the time, which was in writing as well. So, I wanted to do more writing stuff at that time. 

The other thing was also, writing paid. So, it helped me pay for my school fees at that point in time as well. So, doing short films, it doesn't pay, so if you're doing it as a passion project it's not going to pay, unless you're doing a commission film which takes some time to come by.

Jayce: Right. So, when you first heard that this, I Want To Go Home documentary was actually, when the announcement was that your first full-length documentary was accepted, what was your reaction then?

Wesley: It's kind of interesting because this project, I was wanting to do a book, and the documentary came about because…

Okay, just to go backwards a bit. I wanted to do the book, I was trying to find funding to make the book possible, but unfortunately there's no such funding. There's maybe one or two organizations in Singapore, but they, kind of, turned it down as well. 

So, there's this organization in Japan called Tokyo FILMeX, it's a festival that I attended eight years ago. So over there they would ask me, “Hey Wesley, what are you working on?” They just liked to have an update on their alumni. So, I'm like, at that point I told them, “Actually, I would love to do this project. I'm writing a book about this guy and he happens to be from Japan.” So, I was talking to them about it and then they said, “Why don't you do a documentary and we'll fund you a little bit to kick start the project?” So, I was like, “Oh, okay.” Then in my mind I'm thinking, “Okay I can use the money to actually also get the book done.” So that's why the documentary had to become something I had to do. It was never the intention.

Jayce: Okay, but are you surprised? 

Wesley: I was very surprised, yeah, because to be honest I worked pretty hard on the book, I didn't work very hard on the documentary. The documentary is shot by my student I brought up.

Jayce: So, is it just you and the students?

Wesley: Yeah, and the translator. So, he shot everything, it's just one guy who shot it, did the audio and did everything, and he did really well for the circumstance that he was in, he was just by himself. Then, I didn't expect so much for the documentary because when I finished editing it, I looked at it and I'm like, “I think I could've done better,” but because of the lack of funding and the lack of time, I realized… 

Jayce: Yeah, and your time constrain. 

Wesley: Yeah, and my mind was always on the book and the documentary was a secondary thing. So, when I finished it, I thought, “Okay, I’m not sure what I'm going to do with it, but I'm just going to submit it to a few festivals for fun, but I don't think it will get in. So, I'm just going to public post it on YouTube in two months’ time if nothing happens.”  So that was my intention, to just post it on YouTube.

Then, two months later, I was eating with my wife, having lunch and then I got a message from Korea on Facebook messenger, as strange as it is, and he said, “Hi Wesley, I had a contact from someone else, I just wanted to let you know that we might want to use your film for this,” and stuff like that. So, I was like, “What? How could this be?” 

It is kind of surprising, because when I was much younger, making all the short films, every year I would submit it to Busan, hoping to get in, but I'll never get in, and every year when I did a short film, it was always a little bit better and I always felt, “Okay, I think this is my year. I think I'm going to get in this year,” but I'll never get in, and then for once when I felt, “This is not going to happen.” Then it actually goes like this, it’s kind of weird. 

Fanny: So, what's your next project?

Wesley: My next project took me a while to decide what form it was going to be on. So, when I was done with this project last June, well, five days later I started on a new thing, and it's a story about…

So, I wanted to choose whether it were to be a film or it were to be a book, and as I went on with it I decided it's going to be a book, and I'm not sure if I'm going to regret it, but it's going to be in the form of a book, and it's about the 1800s in Singapore and it's about immigrants who are coming to Singapore to have a start of a new life and they have a little bit of a dark past that they're trying to push away. 

So, the reason it's not a film is because it's, like the early 1800s Singapore and it's not possible to film.

Fanny: Yeah, high production budget.

Jayce: It can be an animation instead.

Fanny: Yeah.

Jayce: Yeah, which is also high production budget. So, given you have been so active in making short films and things like that in Singapore, do you see the change, or rather I would say, do you see the progressions in our local film making industries, from when you first started, when you were 19 years old, to now? Do you think that the situation has improved, and they've made it easier for young people who want to be a filmmaker to become a filmmaker?

Wesley: I think yes, it has improved. There's a lot more platforms and in terms of the skills that students have at the early age of, like 17 or 18, is like vastly different from even not so long ago, like my time, maybe 15 years ago. If I were to compare the projects I did when I was in Poly, to the projects my students are doing now at the same level, is like night and day, and it's not just the technology. I think younger individuals now, they are brought up with their iPads, their iPhones and they're always looking at videos, they're always uploading things on Instagram, and even if it's a video uploaded on Instagram, that's actually a form of practice that you're looking at, and you're taking photos and you're framing things, something which you may have not done back then. So, their eye for things is way better.

Fanny: How about storytelling?

Wesley: Yeah, so I was just thinking about it yesterday, I was talking to some people about it. So, I think in Singapore we have a lot of, not just Singapore, but other parts of the world as well, we have a lot of advances in technology, things look really good.

Jayce: Yeah, all the filters that you can use conveniently.

Wesley: Yeah, everyone can take a really nice photo, even short films look really good sometimes without too much effort. But sometimes storytelling still falls short, and I get kind of sad by it because storytelling is something I'm very interested in and for my postgrad studies, I studied television writing, which is a quite specialized form of writing, and I realized, when I was studying it, how much skillset was needed for just writing, and it's not just, “Hey, I have an interesting story to tell and this is my interesting story,” it's not just that, there's so much structure to it.

I think things are changing, but it's going to take some time, because if I look back to when I was a student and when I was studying film-making, how much time was given onto scriptwriting and learning scripts? I would say almost zero. And why was it zero? And the reason is because we probably had, unfortunately at that point in time, maybe educators who weren't trained in scriptwriting, so how can they teach something which they don't know? So hopefully as time goes by, things will change in that area.

Jayce: Yeah, because even in our field of working with our clients at Creatives At Work, trying to match suitable freelancers to our client, I think scriptwriting, even copy writing, came out to be one of the key areas that seems to be quite lacking in that sense. So, the good ones are really good. It’s like a range, the good ones are really good and then there's probably a lot of the young ones that are struggling. 

So, in terms of this aspect, what do you think we can do more to actually help our freelancers to be more aware that there is a need for good storytelling and where can they go to, to learn more about it?

Wesley: I think it would be great to have more scriptwriting courses, but I think, at the end of it, there needs to be the demand for these good stories, if not, there won't be much appreciation or need for it. 

So, I think for example, maybe local television, if there was a little bit more necessity for scripts which are, “Wow that's kind of ground breaking,” that kind of pushes things ahead, instead of just recycling ideas, and then maybe there would be a need. It would slowly trickle down to having these things that kind of feed that, but I think, if we just have this balance going like, there's no need for anything, they’re learning things which… then they won't need to put their skills to use.

Jayce: Right, I know Lasalle is actually running some writing courses as well with IMDA. 

Wesley: Yes, it is.

Jayce: Soo I think that is one of the moves.

Wesley: One of it, yeah.

Jayce: But I think, I'm sure more can be done. 

So, we also hear a lot of our freelancers, especially the younger ones, they always come out that they want to be a camera man, they want to be a director. We seldom hear people who say, “I want to be a screen writer.” So, is that the same thing that you see in the students?

Fanny: Cohort, yeah.

Jayce: The younger cohort that you are handling?

Wesley: Yeah, it is common, because I think director is like the most… I think, even for us, when we watch a film, we only remember the director, maybe, and actors and directors. So, if it's a good film we remember the director, if it's a bad film it's like, “Oh I don't like that director.” But everyone else we don't remember, we don't remember the producer, the scriptwriter is like least remembered. It’s one of those things. So, I think, growing up you would tend to go, “Oh, I want to be a director to tell my story.” 

But the good thing is, when my students come in, they have this kind of thought, and then, as they go along, over the next two or three years, they realize, “Okay, there's these different areas which I actually prefer. I prefer, maybe, not just producing, but I prefer doing, like casting, or I prefer doing art direction or something.” So, I think it takes time because they're not familiar that these roles exist.

Jayce: Yeah, do you have students who actually have a very different mindset when they take up the course? So, I think one of the, I won’t say challenges, but one of the common issues that we deal with, with younger freelancers is, they always take up media because they thought that it’s very glam. So, it's like Instagram, they want to be a YouTuber, but then the actual… 

Fanny: Operations and production of it.

Jayce: Yeah, the operation is not like that, especially if you are a new entrance into the industry, you must be very prepared to start from the bottom.

Fanny: Yeah, hands-on.

Jayce: And you have to be very hands-on. So, do you have a lot of, I would say complaints, students coming to you with a very different mindset about what is the media industry, and then how do you actually help them to overcome these challenges before they go into the workforce? 

Wesley: For my students, when they reach towards their third year of their education they do projects with outside clients to kind of give them a taste of an industry project, what it's like to work outside. Then, one of the issues, one of the problems they face is, “Oh, how do I communicate with them?” Then they realize, “Okay, these are the demands they have. I need this amount of discipline, I can't come in late. I have to present properly.” So, that kind of puts them in check at that stage, yeah. 

Then, I think also, the good thing about some of my students is that as they progress towards the later stages of their education, they start to, by themselves take on freelance jobs, so they also have a taste of how it's like. I think they also realize, “Hey, it's quite different from what I imagine it to be,” but, at the same time, it still can be what you want it to be, it's just maybe a little bit different from how it looks.

Jayce: So, would you see a growing trend in the students wanting to work for themselves rather than to join a production house for example, in that sense?

Wesley: Yeah, there is quite a difference in that, a growing trend in students who are going, “I just want to be a freelancer and I want to do the jobs that I want to choose to do,” rather than, “Okay, I'm going to work in this company for the next five years.” 
I think it depends also on your personality as well. For example, me, I'm quite a, I wouldn’t say a scaredy cat, but I’m quite a safe person by nature, so I like to have something a little bit more permanent in my life. So, if I were to do just freelance jobs, I would feel very uneasy, yeah, but that's me. So, it depends on person to person I guess.

Jayce: Right. Yeah.

Fanny: So what advice would you give to students who want to become a freelancer?

Wesley: I think they have to be… 

Fanny: Are you one of those, like me, that would tell them, “You have to really start from ground up, so you can learn the ropes with the more experienced freelancers”?

Wesley: In a way yeah, I would say that as well, and I think being open to doing things, which you may not like at first or like for the first few years, and then just having this goal that, “Okay, further down the line things will work out better and I get to do things that I really want to do.” But at the starting stage you may do things which you don't really want to do, but you have to do it because it's a job. So, I think being able to accept that is important, putting your dreams aside, just for a moment, and learn the skillset required. Because I think, even in the freelance industry, it's very dependent on people you know to get your next job, and how well you do for this one and then it leads on to the next one. So, yeah, it's one of those things, kind of like life itself.

Jayce: Yeah, but what are the things that you think the school can prepare students for, students who want to actually take on the journey of becoming a freelancer, to actually learn better before they actually join the industry? Are there certain things you think we could do better, so that we better prepare the students who are adamant on joining the industry? 

Wesley: We could get companies to come down to talk to the students, there would be like a career day kind of thing, that would be good. Doing industry projects as well helps. Other than that, perhaps even having, like a talk about how to conduct yourself as a freelancer in Singapore would help as well, and what to expect. Also, where are the different platforms you can go to, to find freelance jobs, that would help as well.

Jayce: Right, right. So before, there was one session, talking to one of our guests about insurance, protections and all this. So, I'm just wondering, being young people, are those some of the issues that are on the top of the students’ minds, at least for those who want to be freelancers, or what is actually on the mind of those younger freelancers?

Wesley: From what I noticed, or maybe from my point of view, I think maybe money and insurance and all of that is probably one of the last things on their mind and I think that also kind of got them into like film-making. I think going into the arts, I think your mind is a bit different and money, “I want to earn the most money,” is not really a thing that's there.

Jayce: Right, or the top priorities? 

Wesley: Yeah, if not you probably would have gone to do, like engineering or something. So, the way they look at life is probably a little bit different already. So, I think they are a little bit prepared for certain things. But I think when you're younger, if you're financially okay, then having not so much money is still okay, but then, maybe as you get older, you might want different things in your life.

Fanny: So, at Creatives At Work we also hold a freelancing [unclear 00:27:43], where we condense all the topics, all the dry topics, all the necessary resources that you need to know, into a two-day work shop, which potentially can help the freelancers. But I have a very interesting question which I think is facing a lot of industries, which is working with millennials. I mean, let's say the majority of our students become freelancers and they take on projects, they will work with different generations of freelancers. So, what advice do you have for the older freelancers on how can we accept to work together seamlessly with millennial freelancers? Do you see any difference?

Jayce: Yeah, do you see any difference to begin with?

Wesley: I haven't had the experience of seeing that contrast yet on my side. So, I'm not so sure how to answer that, but from what I think is, maybe just being accepting to each other is important, easier said than done, but yeah.

Jayce: Yeah, but I think that is something that not only just in the film-making industries, but it’s like every industry right now, they need to deal with, they need to be inclusive, collaborative. I mean, it's just how the world goes right?

Fanny: It's just the freelancing industries, it's a bit more prominent, because you don't work with the same group day in day out, they change the group. So, it is important to know how each generation… 

Jayce: Think, function.

Fanny: Yeah, kind of the values, they know the media they're exposed to, shapes their way. So, if you understand each other more, you know, because right now, there's not a lot of cross over I feel. I feel different sets of freelancers still tend to work within their comfortable zone, which is not good because we don't tap into fresh ideas from like younger freelancers and then the younger freelancers also find it hard to cross over. So, this is one thing I think the industry has to take a look at.

Jayce: Yeah, I think we are at a cross-point now, because we have enough of such millennials coming into the workforce, and at the same time we also have a lot of the senior ones who are still in the workforce, and because, right now, they still haven't intersected a lot, because those who join a production house, probably already inherited the mindset because it's been taught down, but it's the freelancers who haven't joined a production house before but are working on themselves now. 

So, how do they actually handle situations like this, where different people are working together? But I guess, that's the whole reason, because everybody has an ultimate goal at the end, it's to accomplish, work together for that film. So at least everybody is working towards the right direction, it's just that daily, how do you handle that kind of conversation? How do you handle those kinds of conflicts? But I guess young people, being young people, they always think that are [unclear 00:30:33] and things like that, right? So, I think, they probably don't think so much about it, because it's like, “It's just my job, I want to do it,” but probably it's the most senior people who think a lot and maybe read a lot into this.

Fanny: Yeah.

Jayce: Yeah, so I think it takes a while for the two generations to come together.

Wesley: Yeah.

Jayce: But I think in terms of film-making, what is some of the advice you would give to young filmmakers, if they are very interested to actually kickstart their first project, going through making 13 to 14 short films, repeating the same thing, and knocking on different doors, what is some of the advice you'd give to somebody who is just starting out and wanted to try it?

Wesley: For me, I would tell them to do the films that they want to do, because probably, at this stage, you're doing a film which is not going to be funded. I find it intriguing because when you get to do a film that you want to do, you can choose any story in the whole entire world, and why would you choose a certain story and look at the story and feel like, “Why is this important?” Why is this something you want to tell?

I think, you can try competitions. I think that's great, especially when you're starting on the first few films, to win stuff, so you can get some money and to do more films, and also to get some recognition and some platform to do your work.
Then, I think, as you go along, for me at least, I start to think about, it's not just any project, but a project on why I want to tell this project, “Is it important to tell this story?” And on a technical side it's more about, “How difficult is this project for me in terms of its technical or creative aspect? How much will this push me?

So, for me, when I do a project, if it's something that I know how to do, I usually don't do it.

Jayce: Oh, okay.

Wesley: Yeah, so for example, this book, the reason why I wanted to write it, is because I did not know how to write this story. I didn’t know how to, “How do I even put this…?”

Jayce: Together.

Wesley: Yeah. Because I did not know how to do it, it's something that I wanted to do. Doing the documentary is something that came like, just second-hand. It was, “Okay, put this together and it's done.” So, it didn't take too much for me.

Then, for example, the project I'm doing next, that’s about 1800s Singapore and I know nothing about it, and for me, it's the challenge of, how do you make 1800s Singapore interesting for someone to read, and how do I write the story in a way where…? There's some technical aspect of it which I have no idea how to do, where I'm dealing with a lot of flashbacks and stuff and how do I write that? So, it's something I'm still struggling with, and that's what makes me want to do it. 

So, I think the advice to someone, is to do something that pushes you to the next level, and perhaps at some stage, it's to think about, if you could only make one more film in your life, what would it be, and perhaps that's the film you should make, once you're more prepared to take that on?

Jayce: Yeah. That's true, but we also hear a lot of filmmakers, especially local filmmakers, you know Singapore is a very small market, so we are always constrained about criticalness and things like that, and then when we look around the region, for example Indonesia, Thailand and then for Korea, Hong Kong, Japan, and all of this, so their filmmaking seems to have progressed a lot over the last ten years. Just look at China, right? So, it's just kind of, you move in a very different direction and it's like still charging forward, never stopping. 

So, comparatively, do you think that local filmmakers actually face more challenges in time to come, compared to the filmmakers in Indonesia, Malaysia and certain things like that?

Wesley: Unfortunately, I think the biggest problem that Singapore has is its size. because we are such a small population, and if you make a film and if you want a certain amount of people in Singapore to watch it, and even if that percentage went to watch it, you still may not even make a profit, because we are that small. So, every time Singapore makes a film, they need to think bigger, like, “Can this film sell in Malaysia? Can this film sell in other parts of the world?” Because Singapore is really not your target audience. So, it's that struggle. “Do I make a film that is for Singapore, very local, or do I make a film that's a little bit more generic for everyone to watch?” 

So, I think Singapore's problem is its size, because at the end of the day, filmmaking, in terms of feature films and stuff, it's a business, and if it's not going to be sustainable then it's not going to work. I think there's so much support you can give it until how long. But the good thing is, I think they're thinking of ways on how to expand it, how to sell it to other countries and stuff like that, so that seems to work to some degree.

Jayce: Is that one of the reasons why you have chosen this team as well, because it's Singapore, Japan, so it kind of naturally gives you additional market, or that wasn't a consideration back then?

Wesley: Strangely, although it's Singapore and Japan, it's not been shown in Japan and the book is not available in Japan as well, and it's not like I don't want it to. So far, no Japanese festival is picking it up and secondly no Japanese publisher is picking it up as well. So, it's kind of strange. That was one of my, “Oh I would love to show it to the Japanese community,” but it's kind of not happening, but hopefully one day it does happen. 

For this one I think, the issue with this one is that, because it's a story about Japan, it’s about a man in Japan, it was really difficult to get local funding for it, because from their point of view, “This is not about Singapore, this is not a Singapore story, why should I fund it?” Which is why I kind of understand why they did not want to fund it, but in for example, IMDA, they come in with some other funds as well, so that's great.

Jayce: Right. Yeah. I think that is very good advice for local filmmakers, because I think everybody has some passion that they want to do some of the stories that they want to tell, but as we all know in Singapore, it's definitely not the easiest way or the easiest place to start, but if they manage to push it through, so good things like, I Want To Go Home, I hope more are to come actually.

Alright, before we actually roundup Wesley, we just have one last question for you.

Fanny: Which we ask all our guests. Which is, what would you tell your younger self?

Jayce: If you have one piece of advice for your younger self, what would that be? Don't worry, take some time to think about it, it's okay.

Wesley: I would tell my younger self, when I was in Poly and after that, during my graduate studies, I did not really do much or any freelance work, it was only in my postgraduate studies that I started to do a lot more freelance work, and I would tell myself to do more freelance work back then, because I think that would have trained me better, to give me more experience. So, my experience within the industry came very, very late in my education and career, in a way. So, I would tell myself to go ahead and do that, whether it's for the money or the experience, it's actually really, really, really important to make those connections and everything like that.

Jayce: Right, yeah. That's true. I think that's also something that we actually also advise a lot of our freelancers or freelancers to be as well, because I think the most important thing is making connections. It's not so much that you want a job because you want the money or things like that, but really, that's how you learn through a project.

Wesley: Yeah.

Jayce: That's for the creative sectors. Alright, okay, thank you so much Wesley.

Wesley: Thank you.

Fanny: Yeah, thank you so much.

Jayce: Okay, so we'll do our roundup.

Fanny: So, thank you for tuning into another episode of the Freelance Creative Exchange. Subscribe to iTunes and Spotify and leave us a review.

Jayce: Also subscribe to our YouTube and leave a comment, because we want to hear what you think. Let us know the questions for the freelancers you want to hear from.

Fanny: Follow us at Creatives At Work Facebook page and Instagram.

Jayce: Join us next time for a brand-new episode of Freelance Creative Exchange. Until then. Bye

Fanny: Until then, bye. Thanks Wesley.

Jayce: Thanks Wesley.

Wesley: Thank you.