Taking the Leap from Full Time to Freelance
Making the decision to leave a full-time job to freelance is intimidating—and it’s not the right choice for everyone. Why do some of us choose to freelance ever the stability of a full-time job? What are challenges we faced as we transition into a freelancing career? Most importantly, is the switch to freelancing worth it?
Joline Lim is a passionate designer who specialises in Fashion Design by training, and self-taught in Graphic Design. Aside from design projects, she also strives in her quaint studio, managing her accessories brand, KLACE. https://www.wearklace.com/
Melvin Sng joined HP as their employee in Asia Pacific to help launch their Partner Portal and eCommerce platform globally. He also won the CIO award during his time with HP. He has moved on to be a freelance digital strategist at Lean Brewery. He now manages, wireframes, prototypes and develops web and mobile applications for his clients. https://leanbrewery.com/
Jayce: Hi everyone, I’m Jayce.
Fanny: I’m Fanny. Welcome to Freelance Creative Exchange. Where every episode, we speak to a freelancer about freelancing in a good economy.
Jayce: And today, we have two -- our freelancers here with us today, Melvin and Joline.
Fanny: Joline in a passionate designer, who specializes in fashion design by training, and self taught in graphic design. Aside from her design projects, she also strives in dual managing her accessories brand.
Jayce: While Melvin on the other hand, joined HP as an employee in Asia Pacific, to launch their partner portals and ecommerce platform globally. He also won CIO awards during his time with the HP, and now, he has actually moved on to be a freelance digital strategist, at the Lean Brewery. He now manages wireframes, prototypes, and develops web and mobile applications for his clients. Welcome to both of you.
Melvin: Thank you.
Joline: Good to be here.
Jayce: Right maybe we can give them a chance to introduce themselves.
Melvin: Okay, Joline first.
Joline: Okay, hi everyone, I’m Joline, and I’m currently freelancing as a graphic designer, as well as an apparel designer. So I only have a very short corporate experience, so I’m very happy to be able to transition into a freelancer, for now.
Fanny: Okay great, that’s Joline, and Melvin?
Melvin; Slightly different from her. So my name is Melvin. So basically, I started off my career in the corporate world. So I think around 15 years and after which, this year, I decided to take a leap. Get out of the corporate environment, and then start my own company, Lean Brewery. And then that is where I am now.
Jayce: Maybe let’s hear from Joline, right. So Joline, previously, you were a uniform designer, and you just started your freelance, I would say, journey, fairly recent[ly]. So two things I wanted to find out from you is, first, what made you decide to make the switch? And second is what is it like, running your own accessory label right now?
Joline: So actually, I started freelancing after I graduated, but it wasn’t a very smooth journey. I had very -- I had difficulties to sustain myself, with no kind of prior knowledge, or how to even get started, or pave my way into freelancing. So I was like selling illustrations for like, 35 dollars per design.
Jayce: That’s actually more than five dollars, really.
Joline: Yeah, so I met a few clients, and then, I did like, illustrations and design work for them. But it was -- I didn’t have the idea of how to actually make it sustainable, so that’s why I kind of went back to the corporate route. So I wouldn’t say it was -- working in the corporate environment has also helped me grow as a creative individual, and I’m very fortunate that I’m also currently freelancing for my former company. Yeah, so it’s still a very -- I mean, we were still in contact, and the trust was already built prior, from my experience there. Yeah, so the second question was how I stated the accessories.
Fanny: Correct.
Joline: That kind of started as a passion project, and I was doing it while I was working in my full time job, like this is like my creative escape kind of thing. So it kind of evolved into much more than what I thought it could, as it -- I think it has become more than just making stuff and selling them; I was growing as a creative professional from the accessories, making [them] and all. I was delving into like, sustainable fashion, and the local maker scene. And I was also involved in the communities of sustainability, eco-fashion. It was just like, oh I -- it’s so much more than what I anticipated. So it has been a very fulfilling journey so far.
Jayce: So how long have you been in freelancing already?
Jolin: Seven months.
Fanny: Oh okay.
Jolin: I’m full time.
Jayce: Yeah, full time freelancing, oh wow. Okay.
Fanny: So how about [you] Melvin, what made you decide to take the leap?
Jayce: After fifteen years as an employee.
Melvin: Okay so basically, it was that with 15 years in the corporate world, I learned a lot. I had good teammates, I had challenging projects. That’s where it helps me to grow. And at the same time, the truth is, where I get to learn the processes as well as the right way to do things. But again, after such a long time -- okay, it’s not too long, but after fifteen years. I’m a bit tired of the routine kind of thing. So I wanted to be able to decide what kind of projects I want to do; rather than the top down management, giving you a project and you really just execute it. But from where I get my processes and stuff, it actually helps me in my business. It’s more systematic, I’m able to communicate with my customers better, because they know, I can trust this person, he has a system in place. Just to get things going.
Fanny: Right. So going back to Joline, just like you mentioned, you tried freelancing and it didn’t work out, and then you went for a full time job. And then after that, you’ve now switched back to freelancing. So what do you think you have done differently this time, to actually ensure that you have a meaningful career, a sustainable career, compared to your first time when you tried freelancing?
Joline: I think first of all, I attended the Freelance 101 Bootcamp by CreativesAtWork
Jayce: Wow, that’s great. Thank you.
Joline: I didn’t know about such a freelancer community, so it was like, just here and there.
Jayce: And for all of you out there who are thinking about joining us, our next one is coming out in October, and then we run twice a year.
Fanny: Okay sorry, go ahead.
Joline: Yeah but yeah. I mean the bootcamp is really, really helpful in terms of like, setting the mindset right, and then kind of like, prepping yourself for this career. There’s so many things that people wouldn’t tell you. So it’s really good to have this experience, to join such a session. Yeah. So that has benefited me a lot, and gave me more courage, to actually make the step.
Fanny: Do you think this is a trend among your peers, of going to freelancing? Do you see more and more people actually starting to consider this is a viable career?
Joline: Actually, no, yeah. But a lot of my friends -- I have a really good friend is doing UX design, and I did ask her, like why not, why don’t you consider freelancing. She said that she wasn’t ready. Yeah, and I kind of see where she’s coming from. Like she wants to have the corporate experience first, before stepping out and doing her own thing. Which I think it’s -- because I think my peers are still kind of like, fresh grads mostly. So that’s more of the common answer from them.
Melvin: I feel surprised because for me, my peers, it is understandable that they have that kind of thinking. To them, freelancing is more like something like Jobless. There’s a misconception. But again, I think more and more people are getting receptive, of this as a career. Even within my age group.
Jayce: I think it depends on the area you’re in, because Joline is a graphic designers. So graphic designers, yeah. I have not met a lot of graphic designers who, upon graduating, want to be a freelancer. But I’ve met a lot of producers, students in the video production site, a lot of them want to be… yeah, they want to be freelance directors. So I think it depends. And IT professionals also, I mean it’s getting [to be that there are] more IT professionals freelancing now.
Melvin: Yeah, correct.
Jayce: So I think it really depends on the vocation you are in.
Joline: I think for graphic design, because I’m not like professionally trained as a graphic designer, I kind of learned on the job. Because I was doing marketing as well, apart from uniform designing. So I think because I have friends who are doing graphic design professionally, and they have -- I think the kind of environment is also different in the agency, as you get to learn from like, the creative director. And the exposure is really different, yeah. So actually, it’s -- I would say I’m still like trying to maneuver into the graphic design kind of realm, but for my friends who are working in an agency, they actually grew much faster than -- I mean if it’s self taught. So that’s the difference, I feel.
Fanny: I guess when you have a chance to work in a team this way, you learn the most. If you work inside and just take instructions.
Jayce: So Melvin, in terms of the mindset change because 15 years as an employee, and now you’re working for yourself. In terms of a mindset perspective, what is the main change that you see yourself, moving into. What kind of mindset are you ending up in right now, versus the employee mindset?
Melvin: I don’t get to buy a lot of gadgets.
Fanny: Change your car.
Melvin: I had to change my car, yes. Not so many gadgets, even though I’m still buying [some]. So yeah. I think financially, being in the corporate world for 15 years, you get paychecks every month. So whenever you use up your cash, your know within five days, it’s going to be replenished. So the thing that is different when we are doing your own stuff is that you need to manage your finances better. You need to put aside some money in case of rainy days, where you do not have projects coming in, or where your customers delay payment, for whatever reason, good reasons. So these are the things that you need to change, in terms of mindset; so that you can better maneuver yourself, and sustain your passion as you go along.
Jayce: So for your industry, which is very much on the IT side of things, right? Are there a lot of -- I mean, are the clients in that sector open to freelancing as well? Do you -- how do you reach out to your clients, and do you have difficulty in terms of reaching the right decision makers as a freelancer?
Melvin: Yeah. So it’s a different kind of ballgame. So you need to talk to the clients directly, ensure that they buy into your ideas; ensure that business keeps coming in. So I think that having some relationships with creatives at work, there’s one source of income. Of project source. So you need to know more people. You need to go into meetups, so that you know more people, you’re dropping our name cards, and people will just come to look for you. Another thing is your relationship with your peers. So for me, I got a few projects from some ex-HP people, which helps me a lot. So yeah, those are some ways.
Jayce: So Joline, for yourself, because I know you mentioned you are a self taught graphic designer in that sense. So what are some of your design processes like, and how do you get inspired to do your designs. As an individual, as a freelancer, versus working in a team.
Joline: I guess it really boils down to how much in depth research that you do before each project. So I think that’s -- I mean not just for a freelancer, but any designer. Research is really important and I kind of like -- it has always been a part of my design process, whether in fashion or graphic design. So once -- so I will read like articles, listen to podcasts, follow YouTubers, or like fellow designers online. Yeah. So I think there are so many resources out there that it’s -- once you can kind of like, open more perspectives to a project, everything becomes more interesting, and you will get more ideas out of that.
Fanny: Right, right. And just because you mentioned about the ecomaterials and all of that. So how do you actually incorporate the environmentally concept into your designs?
Joline: Actually, it’s not so much on -- yeah, the accessories I do, it’s not so much on eco-fashion and eco-friendly material per se. But it plays on the idea of being curious and inquisitive about the materials that we normally see. But we don’t really, kind of like -- they are not directly related to each other. So for example, the necklaces that I have on my hands are actually made of belt buckles. So those are for the backpack, the connecting parts. And then with yarn, and they’re all hand sewn together. So it’s really kind of like handmade, from home. And the next step that I’m actually exploring with is to actually hire stay at home moms to help me make them. So that was the next step that I’m still kind of like, exploring. Because since it’s I was having some trouble to consistently make enough stock to sell in popups and all of that. So I thought, hey, I really need help to make them. So is there any way to make this more meaningful, rather than just to send it off somewhere in a factory, to manufacture it. So yeah. I got in touch with this organization called of Tomorrow who actually help stay at home moms, or mothers from underprivileged families, to find jobs. Home based jobs or like, really flexible working hours. So yeah. That’s how I got to hire two mothers, currently, to help me make them as well. So it’s still -- so that is how it kind of like motivates me to continue doing this, because it actually brings me to so many places that I never thought that I would have the chance to explore.
Fanny: Yeah, it’s not just a product anymore.
Joline: Yeah. So it’s so fun to teach someone to make something out of like, really random stuff, and we’re able to market it as a handmade, handmade with love product.
Fanny: Right, okay, that’s nice, that’s interesting. Maybe you should get one as well. Support this cause.
Jayce: Corporate gift.
Fanny: So how about you, Melvin? I mean, we spoke about Joline’s design process and all of this. In terms of creating your client’s project on the digital front, do you follow design processes? Or is that important for IT?
Melvin: It is, it is. I have nothing to show, but it’s basically a concept of which I’m trying to incorporate in my projects. This process has been used in Google as well, so they call it design sprints. So I advocate for lean, in terms of the processes. So this one actually supplements to how I manage projects; it allows my client to be able to see a prototype, within as short as five days. That’s what I’m trying to incorporate into my upcoming projects. So in terms of the process, it’s very basic to the methodology that I’ve been using.
Fanny: So is there something that you openly communicate with your clients, or do you ask them like, I’m adapting this metatology.
Melvin: No, I don’t, because for the clients, a lot of them don’t know, and they don’t need to know. But it’s how you incorporate that idea into a project plan, into how you execute your projects, that would resonate with your clients. So that’s how I’m trying to do that. Not to bombard them with a lot of big words. It’s just a matter -- it’s a way of doing things.
Fanny: Okay, so would you say the first half of your corporate life or [those] 15 years actually helped to pave the way for your freelance career?
Melvin: Definitely, definitely. So I get the trainings, I get the network. Great colleagues, great teammates. And of course, I build up my so called portfolio, in a certain sense, because those are the things that I’ve done and you find the same thing in LinkedIn. So it actually helps me to build credibility, because as a startup, it’s quite difficult.
Jayce: How about recognition, because it looks like you either stay on in HP -- it looks like you have regular promotions, because of the worldwide global award from your CIO. So yeah. How do you satisfy the part of being “recognized,” right now since you’re a freelancer and you report to yourself.
Melvin: No but it’s a different kind of achievement. So of course there is no promotions and what not, but it’s the satisfaction that you gain from delivering something that your client wants, that is how I kind of benchmark. Or how I find satisfaction out of the work.
Jayce: Yeah. So for Joline, we heard about the great work of your accessories. So in that sense, in terms of this -- your plan for will you be able to share with us upcoming plans? Like what else are you going to design and things like that?
Joline: In terms of collection, it’s still in the process, but I think now, the main focus is to make this sustainable for the mothers that I engage right now. So yeah, to make that sustainable, I’m actually trying to open up more kind of like to attend more popups, especially for the year end season.
Fanny: Yeah, with Christmas coming and things like that, Chinese New Year.
Joline: Yeah, that’s true. So [Inaudible] is also actually part of this sustainable fashion -- not sustainable fashion, how do I say it, like an eco-collective, yeah. The green collective. So it’s basically multiple brands, we come together and we actually have this retail space at ONEKM. So there is like one stop shop of all of the eco-friendly, lifestyle products, homeware, accessories, fashion products, all you can find there. So that is another step that I would like to pursue as well. So yeah, being in the retail space is quite important, and one of the steps that I’m trying to take.
Fanny: So how big is this green collective thing that you mentioned? So it’s like -- is it only restricted to the designers, or is it actually a movement where anyone who has an interest in eco-friendly topics can join the collective?
Joline: Right now, it’s only open to brands that are trying -- emerging brands, or brands that are already in the market for a while. But I think the main thing that they are trying to advocate -- because the sustainable community is so small in Singapore. So instead of being just scattered all around, why not just come together and we make this movement even more kind of like -- yeah, a bigger impact, and letting more people know. Because each of us, we can leverage each other’s audiences. Just to kind of like cross promote each other’s brands. Which is really exciting, and I’m really fortunate to be able to join them at a very early stage. So -- but they also kind of -- they have like a -- they are trying to work with also emerging brands. Or if you just have an idea, but you’re not sure how to build the brand as an eco-friendly or sustainable brand, and they actually have resources to help you. Yeah, help you grow. So yeah, that’s...
Jayce: So it seems like it’s very important, as a freelancer, you should not be working alone. You should look out for communities to be part of, you should look out for more connections, and really at the end of the day, it’s finding a direction, a passion, that you want to follow. Okay, so my next question is just, now, what are some of the challenges that you’re facing, as in right now, because you’ve started freelancing and all of this. So what are some of the top three challenges, that you’re trying to solve, in your current work.
Joline: You can go first.
Melvin: So getting enough projects, that’s one. I think the other one would be implementing what I would like to do, as a process; to how I manage projects, and do the projects that I’m going to execute. Because I meet different kinds of people, who do things differently. So I guess I need to tailor that. And being the face of my own company, it is more difficult. And I think the last thing would be towards ensuring that the payment gets in. And so yeah, that’s basically -- yeah.
Jayce: Joline, are you facing any challenges?
Joline: For me -- yeah, constantly, actually. I think the number one biggest challenge for me is time management. So yeah. I think it is not about being lazy and about not doing stuff; it’s about when to know when to stop, and make time for other things. Yeah so -- because previously, when you’re a corporate environment, lunch time, you just go for lunch, come back an hour later, and then finish work at five. But for now, you work past hours, and then yeah, you kind of like the neglect the other things that need to be attended to. Yeah and also I guess communication as well, because a lot of times, I mean for me personally, being -- having started in a corporate environment it’s always, okay, your boss tells you what to do and then [it’s like], okay, I can. But now, you really have to think as -- for your interests as well. Yeah. So something is not really right, you really have to voice it out and just say yes all the time.
Jayce: So do you have difficulty saying yes actually?
Joline: I say yes all the time!
Fanny: When I first started out, I also -- actually even now, I always say yes, but I guess there is a virtue in that sometimes. Because when you say yes, sometimes you are helping your clients to solve problems that they can’t solve. Not necessarily that your client is trying to take advantage of you, but it’s just that they really don’t know how to solve the problem. Although there should be a limit about -- I know there has been a lot of talk around saying that we, as freelancers, should know how to put that yourself but I guess sometimes, it’s good to help clients solve problems. Because more often than not, CreativesAtWork has not a lot of active marketing, but a lot of our clients are returning clients. And I guess that’s because as much as possible, we always say yes.
Melvin: I guess it’s a matter of taking the extra amount. And when you really say yes, most of the time, and there is one particular time that you know you can’t make it, and you say no. The client himself, or herself, will be able to know that it genuinely can’t be done. And if you push off every time, then...
Jayce: Or if you’re too negative then it makes working together hard.
Melvin: Agreed, agreed.
Fanny: So have you encountered any situation where you have to say no? Or what was the most recent one?
Joline: Not at the moment. Yeah. I mean because right now, I’m starting out and all of that it’s… It’s kind of like you -- I think it’s also a thing that you don’t want to mistreat yourself, like maybe you can do this, so why not just give it a try. So I think that is the mentality that I have, which I think it’s also beneficial in a way. Like ooh, I get to learn new things and I get to do something that I’ve never done before.
Jayce: Just be open about it right, because you don’t know where this will bring you to.
Joline: Yeah, that’s true.
Fanny: So Melvin, do you have any situations where you have to say no?
Melvin: A lot of times. No, I mean, yeah. I mean there are a couple of times that I say no.
Fanny: The most recent one?
Melvin: Most recent. Okay, there’s this project. The client has specified a particular platform to be built, to have their websites, but there are certain restrictions that that particular platform is having. So I just have to tell him that, frankly, if you insist on this platform, then this particular stuff can not be done. But in addition to saying no, I did provide alternatives for him. I think that is important; at least you try to help, even though technically, you know that it cannot be done, but you provide alternatives.
Jayce: I think that’s also important, because I think as freelancers, we are -- we want to be seen as a value contributor, rather than just an additional pair of hands. Because if we see ourselves as an additional pair of hands, anybody can take over that job. Or most likely, it’s been going to be based on cost; how the client evaluates you. But let’s say the value that you bring to the table is valuable, then it’s not a question of how much you charge, what is your cost. It’s really whether your experience is required, and hence I think -- for Singapore especially I think, because of our environment, cost of living and things like that. Naturally, I think we cannot compete based on price. We cannot compete to say that, okay, we’re the cheapest, I charge 10 dollars per hour, that kind of thing. But then, what can we , I think that is of value, and as a freelancer, I think you should ask yourself, what is the value that you bring to your client. Okay, but thank you so much. I think for that, maybe just one more thing that I just want to find out. So if let’s say you were to rewind back to the time that you were to -- that you made that judgmental call, to convert from a full time [employee] to a freelancer. Would you have done it differently? I mean, as in like, would you consider differently -- considering what you have went through for the last several months?
Joline: I’ve never felt happier to be honest. So it’s -- it’s the kind of freedom and the flexibility that you -- and the choices -- the flexibility in the choices that you can make, it’s really, really satisfying, I would say. And I also feel very fortunate to have people that are very supportive of me, and the family support, friend support. So I think -- and being able to pursue your passions, I think it’s -- not everybody has the courage to actually go forward and take that extra step; which I feel that more people should. We are so lucky to have -- to be able to choose what we want to do, what career we want to have. So why not just make the best of it.
Fanny: Talking about your family support, and when you first decided to go into freelancing, did you face any, I would say, eyebrows raised from your family? When you first began to make those suggestions?
Joline: Actually half of my family are “freelancing,” per se. So yeah, my mom is a financial advisor. And I have a brother who is a freelance audio engineer and DJ. So it was quite -- I mean, I didn’t have any fears of objection, it was more of the, are you ready for it. Like do you think you can do this. I think with that kind of environment, we are actually very supportive of each other. We all like sort of put things out on the table and talk about it.
Jayce: Well, that’s very cool.
Joline: Yeah, so I’ve been quite fortunate in that sense.
Fanny: Yeah. Melvin?
Melvin: I regret it. No as in, I should have done it earlier. So yeah. I guess if I can rewind it, I would have joined the freelancing career earlier, because again, like what Joline said, it’s the passion. It’s the satisfaction that you get, out of doing what you want to do.
Jayce: Okay. Were there any objections from your family?
Melvin: No.
Fanny: Really?
Melvin: I just have to solve my own problems. Yeah, status quo.
Fanny: But is what you have expected? Is this -- the situation that you’re in right now, is this something that you expected? Yeah, or is it better or worse?
Melvin: I guess it’s better because other than doing whatever I’m doing in. I got to know quite a few friends, and then we are starting something else. So it’s the dynamics, as well as the ability to try a lot of things, that make it more satisfying.
Jayce: Okay, great. So we actually have one last question for both of you, you can take some time to think about it. It is a question that we ask almost all of our guests. So the question is, if you could give one piece of advice to your younger self, when you were just starting out, what would you say?
Joline: Can I go first, I already have mine. I guess for me, it’s don’t get too comfortable. Yeah. So I think for my generation, we always have things being spoon fed to us all the time. Like no matter whether you are still studying, or getting onto your first job. It’s always -- we’re very passive, I feel. So we need to be more proactive, and if you are really uncomfortable with something, with your current job; do something about it. Don’t just let it go, [like] it will get better the next year, it’s okay, I will get a pay raise the next year, just hang in there. You really have to -- we are only here for such a short time. I mean yeah, just live and -- yeah, live to the fullest, that’s how I feel.
Jayce: Yeah, I’m just curious, because of the millenium, so you’re considered Gen Z.
Joline: I’m at the borderline, yes. Yeah so I guess -- I think that’s also what I’ve observed from my schoolmates as well, because a lot of my schoolmates are not in the trade anymore. Like they’ve all gone to do something else.
Fanny: Oh really? Okay.
Joline: Which I feel a bit sad in a way, like I had friends that were really talented in pattern drafting and all of that. So they have gone to do -- I mean, it’s not like -- I wish that they could have like, pursued it, because that’s what you interested you to study it in the first place.
Jayce: So what are they doing now, just curious. So when they move out of the so called discipline that they trained for, and then they move into another industry. So do they become teachers?
Joline: I do have some friends who went into graphic design, same like me, and some is totally unrelated. Like surveys or marketing, yeah. Marketing is even quite a lot actually. So yeah. I’m not sure whether it was the industry itself; like the fashion industry in Singapore is still quite niche, I would say. I think it’s still a bit difficult to -- unless you are really starting out overseas, I think there are more opportunities there. Yeah so maybe that is also one of the reasons that they’re unable to kind of like, pursue it. But I feel like, no matter what, you still -- if you have the passion, you can still do something. Just do something out of your house, or something -- share it online, and if people like it, and then you can -- who knows.
Fanny: Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Passionate interest is important, yeah. Melvin, what advice would you give to your younger self? So Joline here is Millennial and Gen Z. And yourself?
Melvin: Is there a Gen Y?
Fanny: Yeah, Generation Y. Gen Y is the 70s?
Jayce: No, X. So three X’s here and one Millennial.
Melvin: I think during our generation, we do not get to have the luxury of showing things online. But if I’m going to give advice back to -- 15 years back, it’s basically the fact that -- try to be brave. Do not follow the convention. It doesn’t mean that everybody finds a job after graduation and you need to do the same; follow your passion, and then try to constantly challenge yourself, and not stay within your comfort zone.
Jayce: Okay, I think that’s very well said. Right okay. Thank you so much, Melvin and Joline, for your time.
Fanny: Thank you for tuning in to another episode of The Freelance Creative Exchange.
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Fanny: And join us next time for a brand new episode of the Freelance Creative Exchange.
Jayce: Until then, bye!